[Attempto] AceWiki - how to get explanation of red?
Tobias Kuhn
t.kuhn at gmx.ch
Fri Jul 3 09:09:43 CEST 2009
Ok. I put "data properties" with a high priority on my todo-list.
Tobias
Alex Shkotin wrote:
> Hi Tobias,
>
> thank you for a hand.
> actually I was just surprised that trans-feature switched off.
>
> for me much more important is a lack of data-properties.
> I was one step away from to show my customer his rdb as knowledge base
> with reasoning and available over the web.
> The step - to convert rdb to AceWiki data format. (Well, to have import
> would be better;)
> And than I discover an absence of data-properties.
> It is a pity.
>
> Alex
>
> 2009/7/3 Tobias Kuhn <t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>>
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> To come back to this earlier message:
>
> Basically, I agree that just rejecting statements containing
> transitivity axioms is not at all a satisfying solution. However, I
> would like to keep the "showcase" AceWiki application as simple as
> possible and I don't see a simple and clean way how to deal with
> those axioms.
>
> I have some vague plans to make AceWiki more customizable so that
> the subset of OWL to be used for reasoning can be changed without
> changing the source code. At the moment, one would have to change
> the source code. (If you cannot wait, I can show you which part of
> source code has to be changed.)
>
>
> Tobias
>
>
>
> Alex Shkotin wrote:
>
> Hi,
> If Pellet returns error (well, without explanation;) but only
> in this case it is better to say user a truth:
> your axiom makes ontology undecidable. try re-formulate or ask
> support...
> actually this kind of situation in practice should be very
> interesting and if user insist then it is time for brain storm;)
> Alex
>
> 2009/7/1 Tobias Kuhn <t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>
> <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>>>
>
> Hi,
>
> Right, Pellet can handle TransitiveObjectProperty as long as the
> restrictions are not violated. By the way: my link was
> outdated and
> they are now called "Global Restrictions on Axioms":
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-syntax/#Global_Restrictions_on_Axioms_in_OWL_2_DL
>
> However, once the restrictions are violated, Pellet stops running
> properly and returns error messages. What should AceWiki do
> now? How
> should it inform the users about the problem?
>
> In my view, these global restrictions are too complicated to be
> explained to an average web user.
>
>
> Tobias
>
>
> Alex Shkotin wrote:
>
> Hi Tobias,
> may be it is better to check "Nonstructural Restrictions on
> Axioms", and disallow TransitiveObjectProperty only in a
> case of
> violation.
> As this kind of reasoning (trans-closure) is one of DL's
> strong
> feature.
> Anyway why not give it to Pellet. I doubt that Pellet ignores
> TransitiveObjectProperty. Does it?
> Alex
>
>
> 2009/7/1 Tobias Kuhn <t.kuhn at gmx.ch
> <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch> <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>>
> <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>
> <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>>>>
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Blue bullets mean "is used by the reasoner". Red
> bullets mean "is
> not used by the reasoner". The latter is the case for all
> statements
> that cannot be translated into OWL or that would use
> the OWL
> constructs TransitiveObjectProperty or
> SubObjectPropertyChain. The
> problem with these two axiom types is that statements
> using
> them can
> violate the "Nonstructural Restrictions on Axioms":
>
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-owl2-syntax-20080411/#Nonstructural_Restrictions_on_Axioms
>
> Since I don't know how to handle these restrictions in a
> collaborative environment like a wiki, I simply
> disallow the
> axiom
> types that are involved.
>
> Thus, the reason why you don't get an answer for
> questions like
> "Which continent contains Oslo?" is that the statement
> "If X is
> located in Y and Y is located in Z then X is located
> in Z." is
> ignored by the reasoner.
>
> If you have an idea how TransitiveObjectProperty and
> SubObjectPropertyChain could be supported in a simple
> way without
> the danger to violate these nonstructural
> restrictions, let
> me know!
>
>
> Tobias
>
>
>
> George Herson wrote:
>
> I added some sentences to the current Oslo page at
> http://attempto.ifi.uzh.ch/webapps/acewikigeo/ and it
> seems to
> me that
>
>
> Edit...
> Add Sentence...
> Add Comment...
> Delete
> Details
> Logic
> Oslo is located in which continent ? (no
> answer
> found)
> should find an answer since we have
>
>
> Edit...
> Add Sentence...
> Add Comment...
> Delete
> Details
> Logic
> Norway is located in which continent ? -
> Europe and rule
>
>
>
> Edit...
> Add Sentence...
> Add Comment...
> Delete
> Details
> Logic
> If X is located in Y and Y is located in Z
> then X
> is located in Z . So sorry, maybe an expert
> will be
> more
> helpful.
>
> George
> ________________________________
> From: Alex Shkotin <alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>>>
> To: George Herson <gherson at snet.net
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
> Cc: attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:38:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [Attempto] AceWiki - how to get
> explanation
> of red?
>
>
> yes, I need to say vise versa but have a look at
> http://clip2net.com/clip/m3050/1246386847-clip-8kb.png
> sorry, but after "Which continent is Oslo" there
> is no
> continuation:(
>
>
> 2009/6/30 George Herson <gherson at snet.net
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
>
>
>
> Re: "Which continent is located in Oslo?", try
> variations on
> "Which continent is Oslo located-in?": Oslo is a
> city, much
> smaller than a continent.
>
>
> George
> ________________________________
> From: Alex Shkotin <alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>>>
> To: George Herson <gherson at snet.net
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
> Cc: attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:20:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Attempto] AceWiki - how to get
> explanation
> of red?
>
>
>
> Hi George,
> then why my question (after rule) is without answer?
>
>
> 2009/6/30 George Herson <gherson at snet.net
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>
> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
>
>
>
> Hi Alex,
>
> My guess is that AceWiki bullets are red for rules and
> blue for
> facts.
>
> George
> ________________________________
> From: Alex Shkotin <alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>>>
> To: attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>>
>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:55:34 PM
> Subject: [Attempto] AceWiki - how to get
> explanation of red?
>
>
>
> Hi,
> have a look at a picture.
> how can I tell that red sentence is definition?
> how can I get an explanation - why the sentence
> is red?
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