[Attempto] AceWiki - how to get explanation of red?

Tobias Kuhn t.kuhn at gmx.ch
Fri Jul 3 09:09:43 CEST 2009


Ok. I put "data properties" with a high priority on my todo-list.


Tobias


Alex Shkotin wrote:
> Hi Tobias,
>  
> thank you for a hand.
> actually I was just surprised that trans-feature switched off.
>  
> for me much more important is a lack of data-properties.
> I was one step away from to show my customer his rdb as knowledge base 
> with reasoning and available over the web.
> The step - to convert rdb to AceWiki data format. (Well, to have import 
> would be better;)
> And than I discover an absence of data-properties.
> It is a pity.
>  
> Alex
> 
> 2009/7/3 Tobias Kuhn <t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>>
> 
>     Hi Alex,
> 
>     To come back to this earlier message:
> 
>     Basically, I agree that just rejecting statements containing
>     transitivity axioms is not at all a satisfying solution. However, I
>     would like to keep the "showcase" AceWiki application as simple as
>     possible and I don't see a simple and clean way how to deal with
>     those axioms.
> 
>     I have some vague plans to make AceWiki more customizable so that
>     the subset of OWL to be used for reasoning can be changed without
>     changing the source code. At the moment, one would have to change
>     the source code. (If you cannot wait, I can show you which part of
>     source code has to be changed.)
> 
> 
>     Tobias
> 
> 
> 
>     Alex Shkotin wrote:
> 
>         Hi,
>          If Pellet returns error (well, without explanation;) but only
>         in this case it is better to say user a truth:
>         your axiom makes ontology undecidable. try re-formulate or ask
>         support...
>          actually this kind of situation in practice should be very
>         interesting and if user insist then it is time for brain storm;)
>         Alex
> 
>          2009/7/1 Tobias Kuhn <t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>
>         <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>>>
> 
>            Hi,
> 
>            Right, Pellet can handle TransitiveObjectProperty as long as the
>            restrictions are not violated. By the way: my link was
>         outdated and
>            they are now called "Global Restrictions on Axioms":
> 
>            
>         http://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-syntax/#Global_Restrictions_on_Axioms_in_OWL_2_DL
> 
>            However, once the restrictions are violated, Pellet stops running
>            properly and returns error messages. What should AceWiki do
>         now? How
>            should it inform the users about the problem?
> 
>            In my view, these global restrictions are too complicated to be
>            explained to an average web user.
> 
> 
>            Tobias
> 
> 
>            Alex Shkotin wrote:
> 
>                Hi Tobias,
>                 may be it is better to check "Nonstructural Restrictions on
>                Axioms", and disallow TransitiveObjectProperty only in a
>         case of
>                violation.
>                As this kind of reasoning (trans-closure) is one of DL's
>         strong
>                feature.
>                Anyway why not give it to Pellet. I doubt that Pellet ignores
>                TransitiveObjectProperty. Does it?
>                 Alex
> 
> 
>                2009/7/1 Tobias Kuhn <t.kuhn at gmx.ch
>         <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch> <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>>
>                <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>
>         <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>>>>
> 
> 
> 
>                   Hi,
> 
>                   Blue bullets mean "is used by the reasoner". Red
>         bullets mean "is
>                   not used by the reasoner". The latter is the case for all
>                statements
>                   that cannot be translated into OWL or that would use
>         the OWL
>                   constructs TransitiveObjectProperty or
>                SubObjectPropertyChain. The
>                   problem with these two axiom types is that statements
>         using
>                them can
>                   violate the "Nonstructural Restrictions on Axioms":
> 
>                        
>          http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-owl2-syntax-20080411/#Nonstructural_Restrictions_on_Axioms
> 
>                   Since I don't know how to handle these restrictions in a
>                   collaborative environment like a wiki, I simply
>         disallow the
>                axiom
>                   types that are involved.
> 
>                   Thus, the reason why you don't get an answer for
>         questions like
>                   "Which continent contains Oslo?" is that the statement
>         "If X is
>                   located in Y and Y is located in Z then X is located
>         in Z." is
>                   ignored by the reasoner.
> 
>                   If you have an idea how TransitiveObjectProperty and
>                   SubObjectPropertyChain could be supported in a simple
>         way without
>                   the danger to violate these nonstructural
>         restrictions, let
>                me know!
> 
> 
>                   Tobias
> 
> 
> 
>                   George Herson wrote:
> 
>                       I added some sentences to the current Oslo page at
>                       http://attempto.ifi.uzh.ch/webapps/acewikigeo/ and it
>                seems to
>                       me that
> 
> 
>                        Edit...
>                       Add Sentence...
>                       Add Comment...
>                       Delete
>                       Details
>                       Logic
>                          Oslo  is  located in  which  continent ?    (no
>         answer
>                found)
>                       should find an answer since we have
> 
> 
>                        Edit...
>                       Add Sentence...
>                       Add Comment...
>                       Delete
>                       Details
>                       Logic
>                          Norway  is  located in  which  continent ?    -
>                 Europe and rule
> 
> 
> 
>                        Edit...
>                       Add Sentence...
>                       Add Comment...
>                       Delete
>                       Details
>                       Logic
>                          If  X  is  located in  Y  and  Y  is  located in  Z
>                 then  X
>                        is  located in  Z .    So sorry, maybe an expert
>         will be
>                more
>                       helpful.
> 
>                       George
>                       ________________________________
>                       From: Alex Shkotin <alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>                <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>
>                       <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>                <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>>>
>                       To: George Herson <gherson at snet.net
>         <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>                <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
>         <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
> 
>                <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
>                       Cc: attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>                <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>
>                <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>                <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>>
> 
>                       Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:38:44 PM
>                       Subject: Re: [Attempto] AceWiki - how to get
>         explanation
>                of red?
> 
> 
>                       yes, I need to say vise versa but have a look at
>                       http://clip2net.com/clip/m3050/1246386847-clip-8kb.png
>                        sorry, but after "Which continent is Oslo" there
>         is no
>                       continuation:(
> 
> 
>                       2009/6/30 George Herson <gherson at snet.net
>         <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>                <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
>         <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
> 
>                <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
> 
> 
> 
>                       Re: "Which continent is located in Oslo?", try
>         variations on
>                       "Which continent is Oslo located-in?": Oslo is a
>         city, much
>                       smaller than a continent.
> 
> 
>                       George
>                       ________________________________
>                       From: Alex Shkotin <alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>                <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>
>                       <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>                <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>>>
>                       To: George Herson <gherson at snet.net
>         <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>                <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
>         <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
> 
>                <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
>                       Cc: attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>                <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>
>                <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>                <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>>
> 
>                       Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:20:11 PM
>                       Subject: Re: [Attempto] AceWiki - how to get
>         explanation
>                of red?
> 
> 
> 
>                       Hi George,
>                       then why my question (after rule) is without answer?
> 
> 
>                       2009/6/30 George Herson <gherson at snet.net
>         <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>                <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
>         <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
> 
>                <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
> 
> 
> 
>                       Hi Alex,
> 
>                       My guess is that AceWiki bullets are red for rules and
>                blue for
>                       facts.
> 
>                       George
>                       ________________________________
>                       From: Alex Shkotin <alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>                <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>
>                       <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>                <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>         <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>>>
>                       To: attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>                <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>
>                <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>                <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>         <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>>
> 
>                       Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:55:34 PM
>                       Subject: [Attempto] AceWiki - how to get
>         explanation of red?
> 
> 
> 
>                       Hi,
>                       have a look at a picture.
>                       how can I tell that red sentence is definition?
>                       how can I get an explanation  - why the sentence
>         is red?
>                       _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> 


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