[Attempto] AceWiki - how to get explanation of red?
Alex Shkotin
alex.shkotin at gmail.com
Fri Jul 3 09:14:28 CEST 2009
>
> Ok. I put "data properties" with a high priority on my todo-list.
>
good idea!
>
>
> Tobias
>
>
> Alex Shkotin wrote:
>
>> Hi Tobias,
>> thank you for a hand.
>> actually I was just surprised that trans-feature switched off.
>> for me much more important is a lack of data-properties.
>> I was one step away from to show my customer his rdb as knowledge base
>> with reasoning and available over the web.
>> The step - to convert rdb to AceWiki data format. (Well, to have import
>> would be better;)
>> And than I discover an absence of data-properties.
>> It is a pity.
>> Alex
>>
>> 2009/7/3 Tobias Kuhn <t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>>
>>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> To come back to this earlier message:
>>
>> Basically, I agree that just rejecting statements containing
>> transitivity axioms is not at all a satisfying solution. However, I
>> would like to keep the "showcase" AceWiki application as simple as
>> possible and I don't see a simple and clean way how to deal with
>> those axioms.
>>
>> I have some vague plans to make AceWiki more customizable so that
>> the subset of OWL to be used for reasoning can be changed without
>> changing the source code. At the moment, one would have to change
>> the source code. (If you cannot wait, I can show you which part of
>> source code has to be changed.)
>>
>>
>> Tobias
>>
>>
>>
>> Alex Shkotin wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> If Pellet returns error (well, without explanation;) but only
>> in this case it is better to say user a truth:
>> your axiom makes ontology undecidable. try re-formulate or ask
>> support...
>> actually this kind of situation in practice should be very
>> interesting and if user insist then it is time for brain storm;)
>> Alex
>>
>> 2009/7/1 Tobias Kuhn <t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>
>> <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Right, Pellet can handle TransitiveObjectProperty as long as the
>> restrictions are not violated. By the way: my link was
>> outdated and
>> they are now called "Global Restrictions on Axioms":
>>
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/owl2-syntax/#Global_Restrictions_on_Axioms_in_OWL_2_DL
>>
>> However, once the restrictions are violated, Pellet stops
>> running
>> properly and returns error messages. What should AceWiki do
>> now? How
>> should it inform the users about the problem?
>>
>> In my view, these global restrictions are too complicated to be
>> explained to an average web user.
>>
>>
>> Tobias
>>
>>
>> Alex Shkotin wrote:
>>
>> Hi Tobias,
>> may be it is better to check "Nonstructural Restrictions on
>> Axioms", and disallow TransitiveObjectProperty only in a
>> case of
>> violation.
>> As this kind of reasoning (trans-closure) is one of DL's
>> strong
>> feature.
>> Anyway why not give it to Pellet. I doubt that Pellet
>> ignores
>> TransitiveObjectProperty. Does it?
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> 2009/7/1 Tobias Kuhn <t.kuhn at gmx.ch
>> <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch> <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch
>> >>
>> <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>
>> <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch <mailto:t.kuhn at gmx.ch>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Blue bullets mean "is used by the reasoner". Red
>> bullets mean "is
>> not used by the reasoner". The latter is the case for all
>> statements
>> that cannot be translated into OWL or that would use
>> the OWL
>> constructs TransitiveObjectProperty or
>> SubObjectPropertyChain. The
>> problem with these two axiom types is that statements
>> using
>> them can
>> violate the "Nonstructural Restrictions on Axioms":
>>
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-owl2-syntax-20080411/#Nonstructural_Restrictions_on_Axioms
>>
>> Since I don't know how to handle these restrictions in a
>> collaborative environment like a wiki, I simply
>> disallow the
>> axiom
>> types that are involved.
>>
>> Thus, the reason why you don't get an answer for
>> questions like
>> "Which continent contains Oslo?" is that the statement
>> "If X is
>> located in Y and Y is located in Z then X is located
>> in Z." is
>> ignored by the reasoner.
>>
>> If you have an idea how TransitiveObjectProperty and
>> SubObjectPropertyChain could be supported in a simple
>> way without
>> the danger to violate these nonstructural
>> restrictions, let
>> me know!
>>
>>
>> Tobias
>>
>>
>>
>> George Herson wrote:
>>
>> I added some sentences to the current Oslo page at
>> http://attempto.ifi.uzh.ch/webapps/acewikigeo/ and
>> it
>> seems to
>> me that
>>
>>
>> Edit...
>> Add Sentence...
>> Add Comment...
>> Delete
>> Details
>> Logic
>> Oslo is located in which continent ? (no
>> answer
>> found)
>> should find an answer since we have
>>
>>
>> Edit...
>> Add Sentence...
>> Add Comment...
>> Delete
>> Details
>> Logic
>> Norway is located in which continent ? -
>> Europe and rule
>>
>>
>>
>> Edit...
>> Add Sentence...
>> Add Comment...
>> Delete
>> Details
>> Logic
>> If X is located in Y and Y is located in
>> Z
>> then X
>> is located in Z . So sorry, maybe an expert
>> will be
>> more
>> helpful.
>>
>> George
>> ________________________________
>> From: Alex Shkotin <alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>>>
>> To: George Herson <gherson at snet.net
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
>> Cc: attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>>
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:38:44 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Attempto] AceWiki - how to get
>> explanation
>> of red?
>>
>>
>> yes, I need to say vise versa but have a look at
>>
>> http://clip2net.com/clip/m3050/1246386847-clip-8kb.png
>> sorry, but after "Which continent is Oslo" there
>> is no
>> continuation:(
>>
>>
>> 2009/6/30 George Herson <gherson at snet.net
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Re: "Which continent is located in Oslo?", try
>> variations on
>> "Which continent is Oslo located-in?": Oslo is a
>> city, much
>> smaller than a continent.
>>
>>
>> George
>> ________________________________
>> From: Alex Shkotin <alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>>>
>> To: George Herson <gherson at snet.net
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
>> Cc: attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>>
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:20:11 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Attempto] AceWiki - how to get
>> explanation
>> of red?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi George,
>> then why my question (after rule) is without answer?
>>
>>
>> 2009/6/30 George Herson <gherson at snet.net
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>
>>
>> <mailto:gherson at snet.net <mailto:gherson at snet.net>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Alex,
>>
>> My guess is that AceWiki bullets are red for rules
>> and
>> blue for
>> facts.
>>
>> George
>> ________________________________
>> From: Alex Shkotin <alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com
>> <mailto:alex.shkotin at gmail.com>>>>
>> To: attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch
>> <mailto:attempto at lists.ifi.uzh.ch>>>
>>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:55:34 PM
>> Subject: [Attempto] AceWiki - how to get
>> explanation of red?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>> have a look at a picture.
>> how can I tell that red sentence is definition?
>> how can I get an explanation - why the sentence
>> is red?
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